Q&A: Alfred Caiola Discusses His Vision for Hampton Bays and Its Downtown

Alfred Caiola has been in Hampton Bays since the early 1980s, enjoying life. A developer, there came a moment when he decided there was an opportunity to give back, using money from the sale of land in the city both to bolster his adopted town and to avoid a bigger tax burden.

Working with a partner, Greg Small, who is a former shop owner in the hamlet, he unveiled a plan to remake the heart of Hampton Bays, creating new retail spaces, with apartments above, linking Main Street and the nearby Good Ground Park. Caiola amassed about 10 acres of properties along the north side of Main Street, leading to the park, and set out to convince the town to help make his vision a reality.

The plan has had a rocky path. The town’s effort to incorporate it into a Downtown Overlay District was stopped by the courts after a local resident challenged it. There were other voices that loudly criticized the idea, and continue to.

“So, the whole gist of the vision is that, to put it bluntly, although some of the locals don’t feel the same way … we don’t really have a town,” Caiola said recently in a Zoom conversation. “It’s scattered up and down.”

As Small described it, “We have the ability now, which I think is incredible, to basically drop a town in the middle of the Hamptons. I mean, how many times in your lifetime do you have a chance to do that from scratch and make it beautiful?”

He added of critics, “I don’t think they really understand the scope of it. And what it is we’ve got something that’s really beautiful. That’s our vision. It’s like a legacy thing. You want to create something that not many people have the ability to do.”

“I’ll tell you that it’s worn me down, these people,” Caiola said frankly. “And I choose just not to engage so much, because I can’t with these people like that. That’s why I’m quiet. Not because I’m hiding or anything. Not because of this and not because of that. It’s just because I don’t want to fight with these people.”

Caiola, with Small at his side, agreed to talk at length about his vision for Hampton Bays. The conversation has been lightly edited for length and clarity. It began with a reference to a recent Express Sessions event to discuss the future of the hamlet’s downtown.

Q: Did you get to actually watch the event we had?

I did. I watched the whole thing. I thought there was great movement relatively speaking. I thought that it really opened the door. I mean, you still have that same resistance, but I feel it softened a bit because of the way you kept redirecting in a constructive way and so forth.

Q: Can you tell me, in as brief way as possible, what your vision is for Hampton Bays?

It’s hard to do it briefly, because there’s a lot that goes with it.

From the days when I was 18, partying on the beach in Hampton Bays with my cousin and my uncle and so forth and all of that. We grew up and that went away, and shared housing ended. And then, as you know, an influx of new diverse people — which my heart goes out to everyone who’s out living the American dream. But there’s been issues with that and how that’s evolved.

But for Hampton Bays, we found a beautiful little spot, and it’s like a piece of heaven. We come in, we park the car and we just stay there. It’s just beautiful, and I love Hampton Bays for that. I love the way it’s very fishing oriented. I used to love going in the little skiff boats and then clam. And all that stuff with the kids and the dog and we all did that here and stuff. So, there’s a lot of that.

But then there’s a lot of lack of organization, lack of quality of things, just things going to the wayside. And when people say, “Oh, you have a house in the Hamptons?” “We’re at Hampton Bays.” “Oh.” I’m like, “What?” “It’s not an address that’s out in the Hamptons.” But I say, “No, you don’t know. Come see. I’ll show you.”

But — not to live in a bubble like that, to create something that everyone can be proud of at every level. Whether it’s taking your kid for an ice cream at night or going to have an awesome dinner on the park. It’s all of that, and we don’t have any of that for, really, being probably the most populated town. And a lot of working people. A lot of people who want to work.

… A lot of the people whose kids go to Hampton Bays schools, that we pay for, work out on east and farther out. And so, all those people are getting the benefit of that labor, and we’re assuming the extra burden, which is really not exactly proper.

Q: It’s not equitable.

Equitable. That word, to me, I still am not sure how to define that word, because, clearly, equity is an interest in something. But it’s very difficult to individually say what that is and isn’t. You have to try to standardize something, and if it can’t be different for different people necessarily. I mean, that’s not equity. It’s equality or fairness. Anyway, I don’t know if it’s equity or not, but anyway, that’s a deeper conversation.

But clearly the vision is to renew Hampton Bays in a way that is charming, it’s inviting, it’s pedestrian friendly. It’s feasible, because that’s another big undertaking. You put together this assemblage. You pay more than what it was probably worth the time with this vision in mind. There’s infrastructure hurdles. There’s [sewage treatment plants], roads, utilities. Never mind just the time factor or money, which things now are 7 percent more expensive than they were before. And that’s massive, especially in a market where you don’t take $28 a square foot for residential or retail. … It’s got to be a $35-per-square-foot space and everybody steps it up and maybe they charge a little bit more and maybe they have a little better product. And maybe that kind of an experience is a little more quality.

I walk into these little places and I appreciate the little lady who makes the egg sandwiches in Hampton Bays. … But we need a better quality of life for them, and for us, for them to be able to step it up and have a nicer type of thing and draw more people in.

Q: Jay Schneiderman has said that one of the big problems that Hampton Bays has is that it wasn’t really set up to succeed, with the zoning. It has Jekyll-and-Hyde zoning, where there are pockets that seem almost suburban and pockets that are more downtown business district. It’s just all over the place, as far as the planning goes. It seems like part of what you are proposing is more of an overall picture of creating space for things to flourish in. Is that fair?

Sure. I mean, when you can put together enough of an assemblage that you can design that simultaneously. Because it would be so difficult if the individual little stakeholders wanted to and you would never get the chance to do something that’s properly done …

Q: That’s what happened, right? I mean, that’s what happened in Hampton Bays?

Right. It’s mishmash. It’s all mishmash. Yeah. It’s a complete mishmash. And, really, the stores need to be up front with nice-sized sidewalks and parking in the back. That’s really the nicest town. And depending on the width of the road when they design this at the town, they did various street types, as I’m sure you’ve seen. And it’s very important in creating space.

And people will go, “Oh, yeah, pretty pictures.” But they don’t get it.

First of all, those pictures are to scale. Those are exactly what the code would have allowed in that envelope. … The key to it is when you’re creating space, it can feel empty and not vibrant, or it could feel crowded and congested, or overbearing in structure. But there’s a proportion. So, when you want 16-foot sidewalks and diagonal parking, both sides, and one lane back and forth — that’s comfortable. Just like in front of Sant Ambroeus in Southampton.

To really design it nicely, you have 90 feet from facade to facade, and all that infrastructure in between: roadway, utilities, sidewalks, plantings, lighting, furnishings, benches, all that stuff. And so, the height of the building, first of all, some people say, “Well, why can’t you just do retail?” It doesn’t work. You can’t support the numbers, not even close. So, you want to create an envelope that’s appropriate for that width, that expands.

And if you keep it to two-story buildings, first of all, any developer is going to seek to maximize that. You’ll have flat two-story [buildings] right down the block. It will be flat roof all the way, because that’s all they can do.

If you do three stories, that two-story mixture, which we thought was a really reasonable compromise that the town had come up with, you can go 68 feet, or I think it was 70 feet, at three stories, but then you have to drop down to two stories for 40 feet.

… I mean, we went through a lot of trouble to satisfy all of that in terms of what we contemplate, and we believe that it’s super charming. And anything less, it’s already very challenging to make it all work.

… The town will have to kick in. They’ll have to buy parking. They’ll have to help with the road. Well, joint ventures save the [sewage treatment plant], because I need about half of it to build this little town.

It’s a beautiful plan.

Q: What you just said is kind of remarkable to me. You’re talking about building “this little town.” So that is what you picture, right? You’re picturing a complete redevelopment of Hampton Bays?

Well, you need a critical mass to make a difference. Otherwise, you’re there forever. You won’t get the buzz. You won’t get the attention. People won’t want to invest. Businesses can barely open there. They do hair, they do nails, they do this, they do that. I mean, that’s all there is.

It has to be a destination place. It has to be somewhere where someone could park their car and walk from store to store — to store, to store, to store, to store, to store, to store. Have a bun and sit in the park and lots of things. And that doesn’t exist.

And the people who would live upstairs on the second floor or the third floor. … I’m trying my best, because I want to have a place where I can go and have some coffee and go and play with my grandkids one day in the park and show them a beautiful experience in a diverse place. And so, it’s a challenge, it’s a challenge.

Q: When did the light go on? I know you’ve been in Hampton Bays for a very long time. What are the roots of investing in Hampton Bays? Where did it start for you, when it turned from being here to maybe doing something as far as development?

Yeah, so my family, whether if it’s for my uncle or otherwise, we’ve dabbled in a few things. Like my uncle, more in Southampton.

But for this particular venture, it was actually through Greg [Small] and through another mutual friend who said, “Hey, I know someone who has this vision they’re doing. They have this park and he owns some property and some other property for sale, and this will change the face of Hampton Bays. And we could have an amazing downtown.”

And so, I was, like, “Wow, this sounds amazing.” I love it here. I have my house here. I built it.

And so, yeah, so I just thought it was a fabulous thing and our family had a New York City real estate portfolio, and we divested shortly there before. … And I said, “This is a good way to try to give back, because it’s not going to cost me as much. I have the government’s money to help me now during this process. And, so, let’s give it to the town.”

Q: It sounds like the park was significant, though, in attracting you into …

Very much. Very much. Very much.

… We knew that property, and Greg had some property backed up against it already, and there was another piece, and so forth. And then we went on to try to put together as much of an assemblage there, facing the park. And to be able to create not one but two new streets going into the park — one at the circle, and one just east of the entry. … And it would have plenty of pedestrian access as well.

Q: Let me see if I understand the vision a little bit here: You want to have a road coming off Montauk Highway. And that would go down to access the park, and then there would be a road that runs parallel to Montauk Highway that would become a second business district. That would be shops and restaurants and things like that?

Yeah. You would simply be driving east. You’d go past the fire department. And you would look to your left and there would be a street, and there would be corner stores there. And you would turn into that street, and it would take you all the way to the park.

But just before you got to the park — you would be about two-thirds on the way to the park, so, say it’s 600 feet, 400 feet down — there would be another left turn, and you’d be able to traverse back west and hit the road that would be coming down off the circle in the park back down to Montauk Highway.

So, you would basically have a U within a U. It would share the same ends coming to Montauk Highway, but it would be the big park loop. And then it would be this inner loop about two-thirds down.

Q: How many properties have you accumulated?

I mean, we have most all the properties we want. We need to finish legalizing one of them that we bought from the fire department. Other than that, we have enough to do a mindful, thoughtful, well-planned [development] …

Two-sided retail is always the best way, where you have retail on both sides of the street. People like to walk one side of the street. They cross the street. They walk on the other side of the street. When you have a street that has one-sided retail and nothing on the other side, it’s rarely as successful.

So, it’s the synergy. It’s also the synergy … The fact that there are people living above and around those stores makes it where there’s always somebody coming and getting a cup of coffee. There’s always somebody who needs something, this or that or whatever. And it just brings that life and that mixed use suburban or hamlet urban type thing, a vibe. And I think that’s what makes any town successful.

Q: And your hope is that by doing that, it sparks a change around it as well?

Correct — so this isn’t just a pocket. It flows in. It connects the park. It brings the park all the way back to Montauk Highway. And as people improve on Montauk Highway, they will set back their structures and create wider sidewalks and do the parking in the back. Because they’ll have a flow to be able to put different uses on the ground floor that might be wet, as well as some units above to help to support the investment, because you can’t do things at a loss.

Q: One of the things I hear is: How can you be confident in creating all these new spaces for retail and for other uses that there’s going to be enough interest in them, when there isn’t any interest in moving into Hampton Bays as it is? I mean, there are a lot of empty spaces available and a lot of underused spaces in Hampton Bays. Is this really dynamic enough to change the model? Or do you run the risk of putting in all of this new development and not being able to get tenants for it?

Yeah. I mean, it’s a little bit of the chicken and the egg, and there are some components that we could help influence, but are not totally in our control. One of the biggest deterrents to people buying at Hampton Bays would clearly be the taxes.

… And, to be frank, it’s sketchy sometimes nowadays. You go to 7-Eleven on a Friday night, you’re a little concerned.

Q: You do have opposition, and their message seems to be, “We like it how it is. We don’t want major change to come.” You are talking about major change, right? I mean, it is major change.

Oh, it’s a major change, but it’s not a lot of difference. Except it’s better.

Q: Explain that. What do you mean “change, but not different”?

Well, so they keep presenting this imagery of a patch job of square buildings with sliders, vertical sliders. And like this boxy, cookie-cutter four-story build. It’s not that. If you look at our designs, our designs will be better than what you see walking down the street in Southampton. Much more interesting — much better, much nicer. And just look at it like that. I mean, is that too big in scale for Hampton Bays? I don’t know.

I mean, I don’t see how anything can happen otherwise, because if you don’t have enough critical mass, it just doesn’t make sense. The infrastructure and all of that isn’t carried by that amount of development. It’s just doesn’t work.

… So, when people want something that isn’t feasible, and they’re not willing to compromise, and they make it so that the guys to spend twice what he would have had to spend had they just gone through with it, it’s really, like, it’s painful. It’s very painful.

It’s really just to try to get past the ones who really don’t want anything to happen. And say, “How can it be better? And do we have someone who really has a personal interest, who’s giving benefits that he may have come across financially from a tax strategy perspective and is looking to have Hampton Bays benefit from them more directly?”

You’ve already cost now another 7 percent on top of it that I couldn’t get started with anything, all this mess. And it’s just, again, like you said, people are protective, and they have to be approached in a certain way. And the town wrote this thing, and they tried, but they didn’t do a good enough job.

Q: Well, let me ask you this. You’ve been behind the scenes this whole time, and pointedly so. And you haven’t really been comfortable sitting down with people and explaining this stuff in person. Is that something that you’re reconsidering at this point?

At this point, I’m considering everything — including selling this whole thing. Because it’s been seven years. I can’t even get a subdivision legalized. Imagine.

And so, it’s like I really want to do something great, but if I have to go and close my house, close my gate, and just enjoy myself, then that’s all I have at this point. But I really want to make something nice. I really want to do a great town.

Q: I think that part of this is a perception thing. That anytime a developer is working with the town on a redevelopment plan, it feels like you’re steering the ship and the town is going along, and that may be nefarious in some way.

Not at all, not at all.

Q: Yeah, but that perception is out there, I think.

Yeah, because, look, let me say this: It’s, like, these people — they’re not doing anything for me. They’re doing it for themselves. This is about votes. … Basically, I just let my professionals utilize their expertise in terms of what works and what doesn’t work, based on what they were designing.

I wasn’t telling them, “Hey, you have to design this.” I was saying, “If you do this, this isn’t going to work. Do what you will with it.” You know what I mean? That’s the stuff that we did. They’re not doing me any favors.

We just couldn’t let them design something that and say, “Oh, that’s great. We’re going to continue to invest in this if you guys are designing something that physically doesn’t work.”

… I mean, as the minds become more open, and as maybe you get their minds to change, if someone is becoming a little more productive instead of just critical, maybe I can really try to bring my professional and explain all of this, again, to people who are willing to listen a little more with an open mind.